Charlie1's System

[lejonklou]

I really enjoyed these clips, Charlie!

The very first impression might be that there’s something “slow” about the sound character (and lots of room echoes), but I found myself forgetting that after 20 seconds and just getting sucked in. Especially Sting I found very engaging.

[Charlie1]

Thanks Fredrik.

I had been doing to digging in the meantime and ditched the Silvers (for Blacks) again. Sorry but I just prefer the timing.

I re-checked other things like the 212 inputs but I couldn't live with the timing to the treble.

That Bonnie Raitt LP is a UK pressing so maybe has not helped.

[Charlie1]

Karousel fitted?

Nope, it's pure 2002 with Cirkus

[Charlie1]

I owe spannko a big thanks for suggesting the speakers come out a lot more, much further than I'd tried.

Too early for clips but the bass is now more part of the music and less of a durge.

Thanks too to Tom for his honesty - this is always so helpful.

[Charlie1]

Now 36cm from the rear wall...

Bonnie:
Before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8evi5lyh1kdwa ... 5.mp4?dl=0
After: https://www.dropbox.com/s/89kpo95ge1set ... 3.mp4?dl=0

Sting:
Before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vqn4eqg5uj4x3 ... 3.mp4?dl=0
After: https://www.dropbox.com/s/duchjfcjx41rr ... 6.mp4?dl=0

[tokenbrit]

Are these clips all (back to) Black interconnects or Silver before; Black after as well as the speaker position change?

[Charlie1]

Before had Silvers
After has Blacks

Sting with Silvers just for you!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dxlzpundd23oi ... 1.mp4?dl=0

Blacks vs Silvers is just different to my ears. Each is musically better than the other - just in different ways. Pain really. I wish I was someone more one end or the other and so didn't notice any drawback to one that worked for me.

[tokenbrit]

Before had Silvers
After has Blacks

Sting with Silvers just for you!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dxlzpundd23oi ... 1.mp4?dl=0

Blacks vs Silvers is just different to my ears. Each is musically better than the other - just in different ways. Pain really. I wish I was someone more one end or the other and so didn't notice any drawback to one that worked for me.

Cheers
After > Before
Black > Silver (timing)
Silver > Black (voice)
😕

[Charlie1]

Interesting.

I hear ...
Silver is more tuneful
Black has better timing

[tpetsch]

I'm preferring the Blacks too Charlie, but there's possibly a mechanical issue with your LP12 I'm sensing. Did you ever have that Lingo recapped? I'm sensing minute speed drifting qualities especially on the Raitt song piano, possibly also giving to that sounding slow remark from T OK. ...But if this is also the same LP12 you have played in your recent classic Naim system clips -which I enjoyed very much FWIW- then the issue doesn't transfer as I didn't hear these same issues in that system.

[Charlie1]

I have since moved the speakers further apart. I think there is more space for them to breath a bit but not 100% sure I prefer it yet.

I'm preferring the Blacks too Charlie, but there's possibly a mechanical issue with your LP12 I'm sensing. Did you ever have that Lingo recapped? I'm sensing minute speed drifting qualities especially on the Raitt song piano, possibly also giving to that sounding slow remark from T OK. ...But if this is also the same LP12 you have played in your recent classic Naim system clips -which I enjoyed very much FWIW- then the issue doesn't transfer as I didn't hear these same issues in that system.

Oh, that doesn't sound good. It's a 2006 model from the final year of manufacture but still might need a recap after 17 years. I was gonna call Darran at Class A about it anyway and ask what the situation is. I thought the L2 had some surface mount components but perhaps they are not the ones that drift.

It is a different deck to the Naim clip - that has a late-Valhalla which was serviced about 5 years ago.

I just want to ask, have you ever heard a Lingo 2 with speed stability that you're happy with? It's just that you seem to me to be very hot on anything timing related and the L2 knocks down the AC power even more than an L1. I find the music has less 'drive' because of that but it does help in other areas, like tunefulness and clarity (less vibration I assume).

Thanks for the feedback!

I am gonna get there one day!!! I fecking know it.

[tokenbrit]

Interesting.

I hear ...
Silver is more tuneful
Black has better timing

Problem for me is that the lack of timing with Silver affects the overall interplay just a bit more than the (relative) lack of performance in the voice with the Black. The tune is carried by both aspects to my mind which seems to be the trade-off between the two interconnects.

[Charlie1]

Thanks tokenbrit. Helpful to understand your experience in more detail.

[tpetsch]

It's been a long time since I heard a Lingo II at the shop and I don't recall anything distinct about it either positive or negative, just more of the same I guess in a different box but the later ones had the SMPS fitted from the factory and when those fail it's a whole nuther can of worms these days, in fact I recently reverted back to the old transformer PS in a friends Kairn from failed SMPS, luckily he save all the removed bits from the "Brilliant" upgrade -1st type round, not slimline- he had done many years ago. But yea, a used MKII would also be a risk IMO because of it's age now too and could probably also benefit from a recap. ...If it's not too much trouble maybe we can hear your Valhalla deck in this system with the same tracks?

[Charlie1]

OK, thanks. I'll call Darran tomorrow and see what he says.

Yeah, should be able to swap them over at some point.

[lejonklou]

It's been a long time since I heard a Lingo II at the shop and I don't recall anything distinct about it either positive or negative, just more of the same I guess in a different box but the later ones had the SMPS fitted from the factory and when those fail it's a whole nuther can of worms these days, in fact I recently reverted back to the old transformer PS in a friends Kairn from failed SMPS, luckily he save all the removed bits from the "Brilliant" upgrade -1st type round, not slimline- he had done many years ago. But yea, a used MKII would also be a risk IMO because of it's age now too and could probably also benefit from a recap. ...If it's not too much trouble maybe we can hear your Valhalla deck in this system with the same tracks?

There are no Lingo's with SMPS apart from the new Lingo 4.

[tpetsch]

It's been a long time since I heard a Lingo II at the shop and I don't recall anything distinct about it either positive or negative, just more of the same I guess in a different box but the later ones had the SMPS fitted from the factory and when those fail it's a whole nuther can of worms these days, in fact I recently reverted back to the old transformer PS in a friends Kairn from failed SMPS, luckily he save all the removed bits from the "Brilliant" upgrade -1st type round, not slimline- he had done many years ago. But yea, a used MKII would also be a risk IMO because of it's age now too and could probably also benefit from a recap. ...If it's not too much trouble maybe we can hear your Valhalla deck in this system with the same tracks?

There are no Lingo's with SMPS apart from the new Lingo 4.

Well there you have it, I've been out of touch with the gear for too long now.

[beck]

Blacks vs Silvers is just different to my ears. Each is musically better than the other - just in different ways. Pain really. I wish I was someone more one end or the other and so didn't notice any drawback to one that worked for me.

I can follow both yours and tokenbrit’s description but I personally have ended a place where I can enjoy both Blacks and Silvers used in my system for what they do without being annoyed.

Maybe I am just lucky. :-)

[Charlie1]

Thanks folks.

Moved the speakers further apart which has helped the music breathe a bit more. I'm sure it could be better and always glad for critical comments, as long as they are kind :)

Darran said any L1/L2 over 15 years could benefit from a service so sending him that at some point this year. He said there are far fewer caps in the L2 but they are more expensive.

Bruce: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vl8t8hx9eh7wv ... 4.mp4?dl=0

This track has always been tricky in many of my systems - either it sounds shite, or the timing is off, or both. I think this is doing pretty well with both now.

Peter: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3ex1850keytu ... 1.mp4?dl=0

[Tendaberry]

Both sounding very good to me!

[tokenbrit]

Thanks folks.

Moved the speakers further apart which has helped the music breathe a bit more. I'm sure it could be better and always glad for critical comments, as long as they are kind :)

These are with Blacks, right? Good timing but missing the body - I've preferred floorstander over bookshelf in the past for this reason, so might'nt be the best person to comment ;) - maybe exaggerated by the 'room to breathe'...

Just wondering if it's easier to tune speaker position for timing with Silver, or body for Black :? But then I don't have to move the speakers ... and it's your system after all so it's good if you're happy with it :)

[Charlie1]

Both sounding very good to me!

Cool - thanks!

These are with Blacks, right? Good timing but missing the body - I've preferred floorstander over bookshelf in the past for this reason, so might'nt be the best person to comment ;) - maybe exaggerated by the 'room to breathe'...

Just wondering if it's easier to tune speaker position for timing with Silver, or body for Black :? But then I don't have to move the speakers ... and it's your system after all so it's good if you're happy with it :)

Yes, blacks to stay now. I hadn't really noticed the fuller voice with silvers but I do get distracted / annoyed by the timing.

Yeah, I know what you mean about 'body; but after Kans they are like a floorstander :)

I will try 242s at some point when a decent pair come up for sale but I worry they will be too much for this room. I tried the Keilidhs a few months ago and they were too much. But I'm not ruling them out until I've actually tried them.

I did the positioning with the Silvers in-situ so you could say they have a slight advantage. I find it quite difficult to setup a system tbh. That's certainly a big plus for me to buy new from a dealer and get them to do it.

The 212 bass doesn't have the quality of Isobariks. Don't often notice it but played a track today I last heard with the Briks and they were struggling to convey the bass information.

But all in all these are superb value for a 2010 pair and in many ways sound miles better than any other speaker I've owned - paid £1200 mint, incl stands and boxes.

[lejonklou]

Both sounding very good to me!

I agree! They sound really good.

The older clips were deleted, so couldn't listen to them.

[Charlie1]

Thanks for listening Fredrik.

[beck]

+1. I like them.