JBL 3677

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Azazello
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Azazello »

Defender wrote: 2022-02-01 15:31 its in the middle of the woofer

they look interesting
they are expensive
unclear is their musicality
Aha there it is!
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by ThomasOK »

matthias wrote: 2022-02-01 21:01
Defender wrote: 2022-02-01 15:31 unclear is their musicality
It would be very nice if ThomasOK can try them in his shop, Ann Arbor is not too far away from Montreal.
Not quite as easy as it sounds. Biggest stumbling block is that they don't sell through dealers, only direct or through certain showrooms. But even if they sold through dealers getting them to ship a pair of heavy speakers across the border just so we can give them a listen isn't highly likely.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Azazello »

ThomasOK wrote: 2022-02-02 18:51 certain showrooms. But even if they sold through dealers getting them to ship a pair of heavy speakers across the border just so we can give them a listen isn't highly likely.
How would they otherwise get new showrooms? :)

But of course I don't really have a clue if they are interesting or not...
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias »

ThomasOK wrote: 2022-02-02 18:51 Not quite as easy as it sounds. Biggest stumbling block is that they don't sell through dealers, only direct or through certain showrooms. But even if they sold through dealers getting them to ship a pair of heavy speakers across the border just so we can give them a listen isn't highly likely.
Thomas,
there is at least a distributor for the US:

https://fidelisdistribution.com

https://www.facebook.com/fidelisdistribution/

460 Amherst St Nashua, New Hampshire, États-Unis 03063

Maybe you can get a pair for evaluation.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Defender »

why do you expect the same or better performance compared to what you have just from looking almost equal - are you plan to buy them?
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias »

Defender wrote: 2022-02-03 20:22 why do you expect the same or better performance compared to what you have just from looking almost equal - are you plan to buy them?
I think they might be interesting for people looking for high sensitivity passive speakers as the 3677s are discontinued.
Further I have so far not seen any high sensitivity speakers with serial crossovers which (when well made) might be superior to parallel crossovers.
So IMO they are interesting but the proof is of course in the listening. If nobody is able to listen to them my post might be worthless.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by fatjulio »

I'm thinking about replacing the internal wiring on my 3677's with split K400 (actually K600). I'm not going to remove the crossover from the speaker. Did people remove/unsolder the existing wires from the board going to the speaker drivers, or use them to connect to the next part of the chain when in a box?

From looking at photos earlier in this thread, it looks like they're very close to the components. I don't know how dicey that might be.

I've just discovered how bad the link plates are on the back of my Majik 109's. Replaced them with short bits of split K600 and it's much better. Now I think the 3677's could benefit from this too.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias »

fatjulio wrote: 2022-07-03 09:26 I'm thinking about replacing the internal wiring on my 3677's with split K400 (actually K600). I'm not going to remove the crossover from the speaker. Did people remove/unsolder the existing wires from the board going to the speaker drivers, or use them to connect to the next part of the chain when in a box?
From looking at photos earlier in this thread, it looks like they're very close to the components. I don't know how dicey that might be.
I've just discovered how bad the link plates are on the back of my Majik 109's. Replaced them with short bits of split K600 and it's much better. Now I think the 3677's could benefit from this too.
I did not do this mod but when replacing the internal wiring you do two things at once:
Replacing the wire and soldering the wire to the speakers chassis directly. So it might be interesting to solder the existing wire first directly to the chassis. I can imagine that with the direct soldering you get at least an improvement as replacing the wire only.
AFAIK, ThomasOK and Music Lover made the complete wiring replacement.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Spannko »

The 3677’s were once the favourite of the forum, so they obviously do something really well. However quite a few forum members have subsequently moved on to something new, which suggests that there was something they didn’t do so well too. Would any previous owners care to explain their reasons for moving on?
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by lejonklou »

I’m a previous owner and these are my thoughts and reasons:
* They lack the lowest bass (there’s absolutely zero to be heard below around 45 Hz, many small monitors give you at least a hint of what’s below, but these don’t) and the only really good solution to add the lowest octave (say 25-50 Hz) is a giant JBL subwoofer. That is a killer combination, but it requires lots of space and more electronics.
* They have a peak in the higher midrange that is annoying in some rooms but not a problem in others. Some careful damping of the room appears to be what’s necessary.
* From the above two remarks, it makes perfect sense that they’re designed for a small movie theatre, supported by a subwoofer.
* They have a very strong presence, fabulous dynamics and a “realness” that makes you feel as though you’re listening to the music directly instead of to a loudspeaker that is frantically trying to push air. There’s no sense of “boxiness”, which is quite rare. I think that this kind of two-way design could overcome most of the mentioned drawbacks with even better drive units and wave guide (likely bigger).
* If I had more space, I would have kept them. Had some unforgettable parties with my pair.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by fatjulio »

Fredrik,
Did you change the wiring on yours?
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by jajo »

I am also a previous owner of 3677. Unlike other members of this forum, I used them in a real home theatre behind an acoustically transparent screen. My room had lots of acoustic treatment and also the big JBL subwoofer that Fredrik refers to (JBL 4645C). It worked quite well, although I could hear some of the harshness in the midrange that Fredrik mentioned which caused some fatigue after longer listening sessions.

Image

Since then I have moved to a smaller apartment and 3677 is not an option here. I am now using JBL 708P which sounds more like a classic loudspeaker - it does not have quite the same realism in the presentation as 3677. On the other hand 708P is a full bodied loudspeaker without the need of a subwoofer and it does have a similar sized compression driver and horn as 3677 which makes it possible to play loud without effort from the speaker. 708P has nothing of the harshness that can be heard in 3677 and it is simply impossible to get ear fatigue even after very long listening sessions (I play music all the time when I am home).

3677 is a fantastic loudspeaker but it requires the right room and careful setup/tuning to perform (and sound comfortable). They made me realise that I really like compression drivers because of their dynamics and how effortlessly they scale the music when the volume is turned up. When I upgraded from 308P (classic dome tweeter) to 708P I could clearly hear that it was a step in the direction of 3677. However, if you get used to the huge realistic sound of 3677, you can't really go for anything else than a JBL Pro Cinema speaker to keep those qualities. Possibly the bigger JBL home/studio speakers (like the K2 or M2) could deliver something similar, but my experience is that these are more tuned for HIFI/consumers. There is something very honest, simple and real with the cheap and ugly boxy cinema speakers. They just deliver - no fuzz. Superb value for money.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Spannko »

Thanks for your feedback guys. The search for a good pair of speakers to go with my Boazu continues!
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by lejonklou »

fatjulio wrote: 2022-07-04 02:33 Fredrik,
Did you change the wiring on yours?
I changed a lot of things, thinking I could improve them. That turned out to be very difficult, however.

There is no better speaker cable than K400/K600, and that includes internal wiring. It’s improved every speaker I’ve tried it in. Don’t strip away the black jacket, it’s needed to keep the conductors together and it doesn’t sound good without it. You can however trim down the excess parts that don’t contribute to this structural function.

Is 3677 better with K400/600 internally? Yes.
Is it worth the hassle? Maybe.

I never put the filters in an external box, but some said that improvement was of similar magnitude.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by ThomasOK »

As most here know I also owned the JBL 3677s along with the "giant JBL subwoofer". I will start out here saying that since 1980 I have not changed speakers due to being unhappy with the sound of the ones I had. I just found ones that I enjoyed even more. An indication is that I owned Isobarik DMS speakers as my main system speaker from 1980 through 2004, although I sold and bought new a couple of times to get improved versions, the last pair was the penultimate version in 1988. But in 2004 there were a number of interesting speakers I started playing with including Linn 242s and Sonus faber Cremonas neither of which I felt to be an overall musical improvement. Then a friend and fellow Linn dealer recommended the ATCs so I grabbed a demo pair of 242s and went to his store for a comparison. The active ATC SCM100ASL I found to be more musical than the 242s or my Aktiv Isobariks so I made the change. The 1988 Isobariks are still with me in the front of my basement home theater but it doesn't get much use due to the need for an up to date projector and BluRay player and because of the nice OLED setup I have upstairs.

Then Fredrik told me to get a pair of 3677s and considering the price, and the fact that an experiment showed the ATCs were better passive with Tundra Monos than they were active with their own amp/crossover packs, I went ahead and ordered a pair. After 5 weeks of continuous burn in I compared them to the ATCs with a couple of friends. One of them said he felt the JBLs didn't embarrass the ATCs too badly in the midrange - not much a compliment to the over 5 times as expensive ATCs! So I sold the ATCs, got the proper stands for the JBLs from Linnofil, and added the giant sub with a third TM to power it. It was indeed a very musical and powerful system and got some very positive press at a couple of Hi-Fi shows. I also didn't notice any problem with the upper midrange in my room.

A few years ago I was looking at eBay once and a while for a pair of good condition Quad ESL speakers just on a lark. I owned a pair just before I bought my first Isobarik DMS in 1980 but they had been arced by the previous owner so were not operating to their best. They also didn't have the level of care in setup, etc. that I have learned to do in the intervening years. So I had some curiosity about how a properly operating pair would perform with my current equipment and knowledge. A pair that was being sold locally came up with pick up only and a decent price and I bought them. A few listens with a good, but not yet perfect, setup was all I needed to know that they were more musical to my ear than the JBLs. I tried them with the giant JBL sub (which sits in the basement to be integrated into the home theater whenever I get around to redoing it) but wasn't happy with the pairing. So I just run the Quads by themselves. In some ways the Quads are like the JBLs in that they don't go flat to 20kHz and they aren't supposed to output below around 45Hz. But they are a full range electrostatic and the homogenous, natural and insightful quality they bring to the music is still unlike any other speakers I have heard. But notice I said they aren't supposed to go below about 45Hz, but mine do and quite convincingly. I recorded some clips of a DUB album of Rebelution that I put up here some time back and I was surprised at the low bass I was hearing. I turned on a spectrum analyzer app on my phone and found there was substantial output of notes in the 32-36Hz region with levels well above the midrange! I'm not sure why mine go so low but there are a couple of possibilities. One, of course, is that I might just be lucky with the room reinforcing very low notes. But it also could have something to do with this particular pair of Quads having been completely rebuilt with all six panels done by Sheldon Stokes and the crossovers rebuilt by yours truly. I think it is a fair thing to say that this pair of Quads is unique in having crossover resistors and capacitors chosen to very tight tolerances, directionalized and soldered at 677°F with Lejonklou solder on new turret boards and the internal wiring also directionalized and soldered with the same precision, plus replacing banana sockets with the Deltorns Fredrik uses. Then I also strendthened the way the bass panels are held in place so they had no ability to move in their mounting. So they do have some advantages over a stock pair.

As to the 3677s, I did the full upgrade of moving the crossovers into external boxes and was quite happy with the improvement. I bought a board of 3/4" mdf and cut out a piece to fill the hole where the crossover plate had been and another larger piece as a backing for it and glued them in place. I drilled holes in the back of the cabinet and installed two pair of Deltron banana sockets there. Then I used K400 to connect the sockets to the drivers. I bypassed the push type terminals JBL uses on the drivers and soldered directly to the metal straps the tensile wires are soldered to for a more direct connection. For the crossover boxes I just bought a couple of appropriately sized craft boxes from Amazon, drilled boles and mounted banana sockets, glued in some wood pieces to mount the boards to (you have to be careful here as some components on the back side of the board are pretty close to the edge of the board so the wood pieces have to leave space for them) and mounted the crossovers to them. I used short pieces of K600 to connect the crossover board to the banana sockets. As I recall it was better to solder the short wires to the crossover board first and then bend them to about the right shape to fit with the sockets before putting the board in place in the box. Then solder to the sockets. I also recall the holes in the crossover board being a little small for K600 so I carefully enlarged them a bit.

Obviously just doing the internal wires from the crossover to the drivers would be simpler and would still give a definite improvement. As Fredrik mentioned don't strip off more than you need to get to the drivers, leave as much of the black outer insulation as possible and just slit down the middle to get enough of a split to reach the driver terminals. I also tried to have the wire length such that is is suspended inside the cabinet rather than resting on any of the cabinet structure. Have fun with it.

Will I ever replace the Quads? Well, as usual I am not actively looking for a new speaker. But there was talk of a Lejonklou speaker and if it ever happens I would have a hard time resisting. I can think of worse things than having Isobarik DMS, Quad ESL and Lejonklou ???? speakers in the same house, although I have no idea where I would fit them all! Besides the Quads and three pair of DMS (front, rear and a set with blown tweeters for spare parts) I have a pair of Meridian active M3 speakers with rebuilt amps and modified bass/mid drivers on the OLED TV setup and a pair of JBL LSR305 Mk1 on my MacPro computer. The JBL 708s also sound intriguing but are a bit pricier than something I want to take a flier on. Anyway, I think you could say I'm not exactly short on good speakers.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Music Lover »

matthias wrote: 2022-07-03 13:02 AFAIK, ThomasOK and Music Lover made the complete wiring replacement.
That's correct and I also moved the X-overs to an external box, placed on the Harmoni (Alu) Mimer
Quite a bit better actually.
The external box was a bigger step than the wiring imho, and the wiring was a good bit better than the original 3677 . Both highly recommended.
The Harmoni Shelf doing something "just right" regardless what you place on them.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Music Lover »

The box.
This one was the best :-)
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by ThomasOK »

Nice! Although I used non-alcoholic, mono block boxes. I have a tendency toward these!
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Masi »

the story continues:
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Masi »

fast forward: I got my JBL in August 2020. Perhaps a bit of background: I've always been interested in high-efficiency loudspeakers. Especially the look of a 38cm bass is something completely different and these professional speakers have a certain charm "no nonsence design". I came across this forum while researching JBL cinema speakers. I was particularly fascinated - because I am also a fan of ATC loudspeakers - that it was mentioned that the JBL 3677 "beat" the x-times more expensive large ATC loudspeakers in a sound comparison, or that they "do certain things better". Of course, that piqued my interest all the more! I couldn't afford the speakers for a long time, so I didn't place an order. In the summer of 2020, I then had the financial means and started looking for a source for the 3677. It wasn't that easy at the time, because that was exactly when the 3677 model was discontinued. I scoured half of Europe to find out where a pair was still "ready for sale". Fortunately, I was able to place a "search order" with an official JBL dealer (pro Line) via the official sales department. The nice salesman then said he could have ordered (probably) "the last pair that was still available in Europe". I was very happy, when I received the loudspeakers.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Masi »

Here are a few more impressions:

At the beginning I was "shocked" at how fine-drawing classical recordings, especially wood instruments, sounded. But even a large orchestra could be reproduced in a way that I had never experienced before. And we're talking about the first notes "straight out of the box", so the speakers were anything but well-burnt in. I knew that these loudspeakers had to burn in, which has also been described in this forum. I then turned the speakers in towards each other and reversed the polarity and then let them play in for a week or more with the volume turned up. The sound was simply wonderful and special in a way. For the first time I had the feeling, although this is difficult with such a tower of speakers, that I wasn't listening to a speaker at all, but simply to music! Simply tones, simply melodies, simply forgetting attributes such as depth, frequency response, spatiality, resolution, etc. You are in the music and everything else around you is no longer important. It was a completely new experience. It must also be said that at that time I had a good source (Roon Nuclus, Tidal, RME Adi Dac2), but a 25-year-old entry-level Sony TA-FE530R amplifier (approx. 2x110 watts or so). But that didn't matter at that moment. I experienced music in an intimate way that I had never experienced before (especially with older jazz recordings from the 50s and 60s).

By the way, exactly what other forum members wrote about the JBL 3677 was true; namely that over a period of about half a year there were audible - at the beginning more obvious, after a certain time only smaller - differences, i.e. the longer I listened to music with my JBL 3677, the better they got.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Hermann »

Wow, they're not small. Glad they sound so good.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias »

Masi wrote: 2024-01-14 13:30 the story continues:
Hi Masi,

welcome to the club

Enjoy
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Masi »

matthias wrote: 2024-01-14 14:24
Masi wrote: 2024-01-14 13:30 the story continues:
Hi Masi,

welcome to the club

Enjoy
Thanks for your kind words, matthias
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Masi »

Music Lover wrote: 2022-09-03 17:28 The box.
This one was the best :-)
Have you finished outsourcing the crossover to the box? What are your impressions, was there an improvement?
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