33.3 versus 45 rpm OR is this about Barry Manilow?

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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beck
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33.3 versus 45 rpm OR is this about Barry Manilow?

Post by beck »

The question about rpm and tunefulness is irritating me.

By listening at home and to clips on the forum most find 33.3 to be more tuneful (myself included). Still, some of my most tuneful vinyl records are 45 rpm direct cut vinyl. Could they be even better at 33.3? Maybe? Or are 45 rpm better at showing faults in the recording proces before the cutting of the vinyl?

Even if we compare the exact same recording cut at both 33.3 and 45 rpm we would still not know if the more tuneful record was showing us the best take on the recording or just camouflaging (less revealing) faults that are made in the proces of the recording or?

What I know for sure is that my direct cut 45 rpm vinyl records are some of the most tuneful in my collection. The rest is still a puzzle to me.
Last edited by beck on 2019-07-05 23:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Charlie1
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by Charlie1 »

Sheffield Labs did loads of 33rpm direct cut LPs in the 70s. Whether you like any of the music is another question though.
beck
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by beck »

As my system by fortune is continuing to improve without me doing anything I have been listening once again to some of my 45 rpm records. I think 45 rpm are harder to get right but in the end more revealing. The setup of our systems are just being tested harder. I also think that when loudness war (loud recordings) kicks in it can be very difficult to get 45 rpm to sound great.

I am enjoying 45 rpm more than ever.
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by beck »

I am glad to say that my irritation regarding this topic has also been resolved by my change from Klyde to AT33.

When I first bought Vanessa Fernandez record “Use Me” 45 rpm record(s) it irritated me that it was not as musical as I would expect.
Now I enjoy it just as much as any of my 33 1/3 records. The AT33 obviously match my Sondek setup well enough not putting too much pressure on the Sondeks ability to control the energy being released when playing a record.

It is a delicate balance between forces made in the groove and the drive system (motor, belt).

So nothing wrong with 45 rpm but it does test the Sondek.
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Charlie1
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by Charlie1 »

Glad you've found such a good balance.

Whilst 45 no doubt sounds better, I'm still finding it a bit emotionally cold compared to 33. Maybe a setup / cartridge thing like you say.

I recently picked up a 'best of' from a male singer my Mum used to play when I was a kid (too embarrising to mention) - it was cheap and my wife likes one of his best known songs. Anyway, I was thinking this week how his mid-70s recordings sound as melodic as anything I've ever heard on a stereo - they are like perfection to my ears - 33rpm of course :)
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by beck »

Charlie1 wrote: 2019-07-05 17:18 Glad you've found such a good balance.

Whilst 45 no doubt sounds better, I'm still finding it a bit emotionally cold compared to 33. Maybe a setup / cartridge thing like you say.

I recently picked up a 'best of' from a male singer my Mum used to play when I was a kid (too embarrising to mention) - it was cheap and my wife likes one of his best known songs. Anyway, I was thinking this week how his mid-70s recordings sound as melodic as anything I've ever heard on a stereo - they are like perfection to my ears - 33rpm of course :)
I will not say that 45 rpm sounds better than 33 1/3. In the end it is the master(tape) that is the
limiting factor.

Yes, analog mastertape and simple recording technic (my guess) can be amazing to listen to....
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by Spannko »

Charlie1 wrote: 2019-07-05 17:18
I recently picked up a 'best of' from a male singer my Mum used to play when I was a kid (too embarrising to mention)
Let me guess. David Cassidy ? ;-)
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by ThomasOK »

Spannko wrote: 2019-07-05 19:43
Charlie1 wrote: 2019-07-05 17:18
I recently picked up a 'best of' from a male singer my Mum used to play when I was a kid (too embarrising to mention)
Let me guess. David Cassidy ? ;-)
I was going to guess Barry Manilow.
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by tokenbrit »

Image?
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by Charlie1 »

Today's winner gets one of these arriving in the post soon:
https://www.redbubble.com/people/serpen ... cts_swiper
tokenbrit
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by tokenbrit »

Charlie1 wrote: 2019-07-05 21:42 Today's winner gets one of these arriving in the post soon:
https://www.redbubble.com/people/serpen ... cts_swiper
Oh man, now I'm upset that I didn't win :)
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm

Post by ThomasOK »

:-)

It has to be the graphic T-shirt, where it appears as though his chest hair continues into your own pubic hair!

I see that Spannko can order his choice of two David Cassidy shirts. Choices, choices.
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm OR is this about Barry Manilow?

Post by beck »

Now to get the thinking away from Barry Manilow (though I cannot wait to see a photo of Thomas in his shop working on a Sondek with Barry on!) I have thought long and hard finding this 45 rpm record in my collection.


Try to sit still! :-)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i9zuilucsqb1c ... 7.mov?dl=0
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm OR is this about Barry Manilow?

Post by Charlie1 »

I like it - I would play that when I am very bored of rock pop and want to hear something totally different.
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm OR is this about Barry Manilow?

Post by beck »

As said before it is now a plessure to listen to my 45 rpm records and that is the main thing. Any kind of music will do. :-)
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm OR is this about Barry Manilow?

Post by ThomasOK »

Oh, boy. We get to go to the Greek circus! Certainly a different piece of music.
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Re: 33.3 versus 45 rpm OR is this about Barry Manilow?

Post by Charlie1 »

I'm beginning to think that groove width is part of the problem with 45rpm. I nearly always prefer the 7" if I have both and the more engaging 12" singles seem to be the ones with plenty of music on a side, or only use up a small area.

I also have some 33rpm 12 inch singles (typically US copies). They are better than your average 45rpm 12 inch but not sure they are really musically any better than the LP version.

It's all quite generalised cos the mastering is typically different between media versions, and possibly the source tape too.

That was all - back in another 4 years :)
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